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LostBrasil - Índice do Fórum  » ABC | Teorias e Especulações » Conhecem esta teoria?

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Garnier
MensagemEnviada: Segunda Março 10, 2008 11:54  |  Assunto: Conhecem esta teoria? Responder com Citação





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Time-shifts and the destruction of the universe by scottgingold
Posted by DarkUFO at 5:10 PM (Comments: 15)
Labels: Carlton Cuse, Charlie, Christian, Damon Lindelof, Dharma, Flight 815, Hurley, Jack, Kate, Locke, Sawyer, Sayid, The Island, The Looking Glass


When Damon e-com Carlton said that the episode "Flashes Before Your Eyes" was the game-changer, they meant it. Everything about the overall direction of the show is explained in detail by the character Ms. Hawking during Desmond's "flashback."

On September 22, 2004, Oceanic Flight 815 on its way from Sydney, Australia to Los Angeles, California, hits turbulence and breaks-up mid-air over an island. The mid-section crashes on the beach, the tail-section comes off and is no where to be seen, and the front of the plane crashes further into the jungle. 324 people were on board, and only 50 people survived the crash from the middle and front sections (the tail section survivors aren't discovered until season 2).

Why did the plane hit turbulence, break-up and crash on the island?

We actually get this answer from Season 2 episode "Live Together, Die Alone" when Desmond looks over the printouts from the Pearl Station and realizes that on September 22, 2004 is when the system failure occurred at the Swan Station because he didn't push the button in time. Therefore he says, he thinks he crashed the plane. Well, the first thing we know about the Swan Station is that it is an electromagnetic station and that by pushing the button every 108 minutes, it keeps the electromagnetic energy in check. By Desmond not pushing the button in time, it sent out a giant electromagnetic pulse which caused the plane to break-up over the island and crash. It also causes the ground to shake before the plane crash (as seen in "Tale of Two Cities".

But how did the plane get to the island when it can't be seen on any maps (confirmed by both Naomi e-com Danielle) and seems impossible to leave from (as found out by Desmond as he tried to sail away on his boat in "Live Together, Die Alone")?

This is the big mystery. It's the biggest question of Lost, which is actually spoken by Charlie, way back in the pilot when he looks out into the ocean and says "Guys, where are we?"

Where are they, indeed. A better question is also asked by Hurley in the episode "The Long Con" when he in response to Sayid saying that the radio signal could be coming from anywhere, he says "or anytime. Just kidding dude." So the better question is when are they?

Okay, I know, time travel. It's so "Back to the Future." But all the clues are there and it's part of the answer, but not all of it. First off, Damon Lindelof did confirm that Desmond did indeed time travel in "Flashes Before Your Eyes." So now we know that this is indeed an element set place in the show. It explains Desmond's visions of Charlie's death. It also explains a lot of other events as well, which I will delve into in a bit.

The first other giant clue that we are given to the presence of time travel on "Lost" is in the Orchid orientation film. Okay, I know this wasn't exactly part of the show, but the producers have confirmed that it is canon and since they released the film between seasons 3 e-com 4, they're definitely trying to clue us into something important.

For those of you who have not seen the orchid orientation film you can see it here on DarkUFO's site under the trailers link, called "Station Six - The Orchid."

Basically what happens in the film is backstage footage of Marvin Candle (here called Edgar Halliwax) prepping to shoot another orientation film. Then the actual film starts and he's holding bunny #15. He introduces the station as the orchid and apologizes to those watching for having to deceive family e-com friends into thinking they were working at a botanical station. He goes on to say that the unique properties of the island create a kind of Casimir effect. The film skips at this point and a frame says "God Loves You As He Loves Jacob." Then it comes back to the doctor who talks about the dangerous nature of the project in the Orchid station and is interrupted by a flash and another bunny #15 appears at the back of the lab. He gets upset and says "don't let them near each other. When did you set the shift?" A woman responds with "negative 20." He asks "how long" and she says "nine minutes but we're still learning ..." He yells "turn it off" and then the film skips to him doing the whole film over again.

Whew. Okay, so what does this have to do with time travel. He asks when she set the shift and she says negative 20 which gives them 9 minutes. There you go, now we know what we are working with here is a time-shift. He also mentions the Casimir Effect, which if you look it up on Wikipedia, you'll find an explanation that links the effect to ... aha!..... wormholes.

So what is creating this time-shift that connects to a wormhole in the space-time continuum?

Obviously, it's the button. The button in the Swan Station needs to be pressed every 108 minutes to surpress the electromagnetic charge that builds up. The electromagnetism is what is creating the Casimir effect and in turn creating a wormhole through space-time. Every time the button is pressed, the timeshift is reset and the wormhole is closed. When the button is not pressed, the electromagnetism gets out of control and the wormhole is opened, letting in anything that passes the other side of the wormhole into ... da da Da! .... the island. A wormhole is essentially a portal between two spots in space time and in this case they are separated by 108 minutes.

The fail-safe key we are told will implode the station, but will also take the pressure off the electromagnetism letting the energy flow free. We see this causes the sky to turn purple and the ground to shake and it also sends Desmond back in time.

So basically, when Desmond failed to push the button on the day that he killed Kelvin, he caused the wormhole to open up and engulf Flight 815. Then the electromagnetism broke the plane up and it crashed on the beach.

The island exists in the past. Every time the button was pressed it pushed the amount of time back between the front of the portal and the back of the portal another 108 minutes. So really between the first time the button was pressed (most likely in the 70s during Dharma's heydey) and the last time the button was pressed (the last time Eko pressed it in 2004) is the amount of time the island exists in the past, which is roughly 30 years.

This opens many questions though.
How did the Black Rock get to the island, because that's from way before Dharma's time?

Well, the wormhole probably did exist before Dharma came about and is what pulled the Black Rock to the island. But back in that time, the wormhole was uncontrolled and unpredictable and it rarely happened. When Dharma arrived, they built their way of controlling the wormhole and so were able to let people come and go to the island. When it operated on a regular basis, Dharma or Others could come to the island (like Richard or Juliet). And when there were so-called incidents, is when uninvited people came to the island (Desmond, Flight 815, Danielle, the real Henry Gale).

Wait a minute, you're saying. If the Swan Station was destroyed by Desmond when he turned the fail safe key, then how come people can still leave the island at will (Richard comes and goes at Ben's calling and he even brings Anthony Cooper)?

Well, the answer is the Orchid Station. I think most people assumed that the Orchid station was destroyed during the incident and rebuilt as the Swan Station. But in reality, it probably still exists as it being used by Ben e-com the Others to come and go as they please. When Ben told Locke that he had the submarine to keep the illusion of being able to come and go from the island, he was not lying. Notice, when Juliet is brought to the island, she is drugged and bound so she cannot actually see that the submarine is not actually in use. Most likely, Richard e-com Ethan put her in the submarine after she came to the island via wormhole, so as to make her think that she came by submarine.

As for the forthcoming freighter, well now that the electromagnetic energy is free-flowing (thanks to the turning of the fail safe key) the wormhole got huge and very easy to access which is why now that the freighter can come to the island, why Penelope's signal can reach the Looking Glass, and why Penelope's two Russian pilots can now see the island (remember that happened at the very end of "Live Together, Die Alone" after Desmond had turned the key).

So what does all this have to do with the destruction of the universe?

Well, if you remember in "Flashes Before Your Eyes" Ms. Hawking says to Desmond that if doesn't go to the island and push the button for 3 years until he is forced to turn the fail safe key, that every one of us is dead.

That means that Desmond was supposed to the go to the island, he was supposed to push the button and in fact he was supposed to turn the key. Everything that we are watching is actually supposed to happen. Even Desmond time traveling back to his old life and meeting Ms. Hawking was supposed to happen. What was not supposed to happen was Desmond changing events. He was not supposed to buy the ring. He was not supposed to decide to go ask Penny to marry him after he'd already decided not to. When he's in the bar the second time and he realizes that he had predicted the wrong night, he has the epiphany that he can change things after all and when this happens, Jimmy Lennon hits him on the head with the cricket bat and he wakes up back on the island.

Jimmy Lennon was in cahoots with Ms. Hawking and they both sent Desmond via wormhole back to the island. Unfortunately, now that Desmond has time traveled, he now has flashes and now has the ability to change events. He was not supposed to change events. He was supposed to let Charlie die. If Desmond had let Charlie get electrocuted by the lightning, then he never would have been able to solve the musical lock in the Looking Glass and die there, unjamming the signals to the island. Ben jammed the signals because he didn't want the freighter to enter through the wormhole. That was not supposed to happen. When things happen that were not supposed to happen, it creates what good old Doc Brown from Back to the Future calls a paradox. A paradox is an event that contradicts the space time continuum that could destroy the universe.

When Ms. Hawking said that if things that are supposed to happen, don't happen, that everyone will die, she was right. The universe would cease to exist.

So everything we've ever seen on the show up until Desmond letting Charlie live until he could unblock the signal, was supposed to happen.

Ben says he's one of the good guys, because he's trying to prevent the end of the universe.

All of this answers one of Lost's other great mysteries. What's with all the connections in the flashbacks? Is it coincidence or fate? Actually, it's neither. All of the coincidences are achieved by time travelers. Whether they are people working for Dharma, or for Ben, or for another group, they are there with a purpose to make sure that things are supposed to happen.

Flight 815 was supposed to crash. All of the people who survived the crash were supposed to survive, they were supposed to get to the island. All of the people were there to assist Ben in preventing the universe from ending. It's not a coincidence that Jack is a spinal surgeon and that Ben was going to die of a spinal tumor if Jack didn't save him. Ben brought Flight 815 there. Ben brought Desmond there. And Desmond in turn caused the "accident" that brought Flight 815 there. Everybody who was there was there for a reason and in turn they were all monitored by the time travelers to make sure they would be on that plane.

The characters that keeping popping up in other people's flashbacks are time travelers.

Christian Shephard made sure that Jack, Ana-Lucia and Claire were all on Flight 815. Cassidy Phillips brought both Kate e-com Sawyer to the island (her encounter with Kate made it easier for Edward Mars to catch her which sent them both to the island) and (her sending Sawyer to jail led him on the path to meet Hibbs who sent him to Australia to kill Frank Duckett which led him onto Flight 815). Kelvin Inman led Sayid onto the path of being a torturer which ultimately led to him meeting Nadia who ultimately brought him to the island. Nadia was also present as an observer when Locke met up with Cooper again and when Charlie saved her. If she hadn't interfered he may have met Desmond which he was not supposed to have done. Cooper ultimately brought Locke to be in the wheelchair that led to his walkabout and to the flight and also led Sawyer on his path to kill him (which ending up happening for real on the island). Libby gave Desmond her boat which brought him to the Island and also spied on Hurley in the institution, until she came to the island herself. Richard Malkin actually bought Claire her plane tickets and he was a catalyst in Eko's life which led him to the island. There's tons more, but these are no coincidences. All of this was part of an elaborate plan. It's not an experiment, but more of a mission. When Dharma said they wanted to saved the world, they meant it. Someone at Dharma knew this was all going to happen. They knew there was going to be a purge and that Ben would take over. They knew that Flight 815 would have to crash. They knew the universe would end and they needed people to save it.

Now that you've sat through everything I've said before:
Here's my big theory:

All the survivors of Flight 815 and also Desmond, were members of the Dharma initiative. They weren't original members, but became ones after they went back in time after saving the universe. Members of the initiative had to have people to stop the universe from ending and to stop any more alternate universes being created which would in turn end the universe as we know it. So they put all the pawns in place to make it so that several of their own members would be people from the future who would travel back to the past to make all this happen.

So Jack, Locke, Sayid, Charlie, Hurley, etc. all eventually travel back to the past and become Dharma people to create all the things necessary for the universe to be saved. That's why Locke was able to beat the chess game at the Flame, because he created it. That's why Charlie could solve the musical code in the Looking Glass, because he wrote it. That's why Sayid could fix the computer in the Swan Station, because he built it. That's why Hurley is haunted by the numbers, because he came up with them in the first place. I could keep going on and on.

Everything that was meant to happen did happen. But some other things that were not meant to happen did also happen which created an alternate or tangent universe. By doing this, the universe could not unfold the way it should and would collapse. But because there are multiple universes, the same people exists in different timelines. This is why the Flight 815 survivors could exist on the island and also be dead at the bottom of the ocean as per Naomi e-com Cooper.

In the end though, when the universe is saved, only one timeline will remain and that will be the current one. The one in which all of the survivors of Flight 815 are indeed dead ... because of the purge.


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qwertt
MensagemEnviada: Segunda Março 10, 2008 13:00  |  Assunto: Responder com Citação





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TL;DR.
Traduz, por favor. Uma coisa é colocar um parágrafo em inglês. Outra é pôr toda uma teoria.

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cris.c2
MensagemEnviada: Segunda Março 10, 2008 14:30  |  Assunto: Re: Conhecem esta teoria? Responder com Citação





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Garnier escreveu:
That's why Locke was able to beat the chess game at the Flame, because he created it. That's why Charlie could solve the musical code in the Looking Glass, because he wrote it. That's why Sayid could fix the computer in the Swan Station, because he built it. That's why Hurley is haunted by the numbers, because he came up with them in the first place.


Particularmente, essa idéia sempre me agradou. Seria bem legal descobrir que Charlie decifrou um código criado por ele mesmo em algum outro local espaço/tempo, ou que Sayd consertou um computador programado por ele mesmo, etc...


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MensagemEnviada: Segunda Março 10, 2008 16:08  |  Assunto: Responder com Citação





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Confused Confused


Desculpa, Garnier... mas se eu quisesse ler em inglês eu teria entrado no darkufo... aliás lá cheio de coisas legais... mas é em inglês... e eu não tenho esta fluidez que algumas pessoas têm...


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willzinho
MensagemEnviada: Segunda Março 10, 2008 18:36  |  Assunto: Responder com Citação





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Compensa ler. Mas não muito. É uma daquelas teorias-viagem legais e com esse caminho que a série tá tomando não duvido nada.

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Anão Tosco
MensagemEnviada: Segunda Março 10, 2008 21:17  |  Assunto: Responder com Citação





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I stopped reading at middle, because it is too boring. But well, there are some parts I agree with. For example, when Hurley says to Sayid about the radio frequence ("or anytime. Just kidding dude"). This line has a hell of a meaning...

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El Fac
MensagemEnviada: Quinta Março 13, 2008 12:28  |  Assunto: Responder com Citação





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Sim...
Fale me mais sobre o assunto...


Tudo em ingles é difícil né amigo...


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SteaL7h
MensagemEnviada: Quinta Março 13, 2008 14:07  |  Assunto: Responder com Citação





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Gostei do post e agradeço por ter postado.

Pra quem diz que é inútil colocar teorias em inglês aqui, eu discordo. Eu não visito o DarkUFO mas gosto de ler teorias. E como sei falar inglês...


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qwertt
MensagemEnviada: Quinta Março 13, 2008 15:39  |  Assunto: Responder com Citação





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SteaL7h escreveu:
Gostei do post e agradeço por ter postado.

Pra quem diz que é inútil colocar teorias em inglês aqui, eu discordo. Eu não visito o DarkUFO mas gosto de ler teorias. E como sei falar inglês...
Eu sei inglês muito bem, obrigado. O ponto é que esse é um site brasileiro, nem todo mundo que acessa sabe inglês. pra traduzir um parágrafo com esses tradutores instântaneos da net, mas um texto não vai fazer sentido.

Fora que já que é lógico que se se quer compartilhar um conteúdo que se traduza ele, para ficar mais fácil. Não duvido que esse tópico tem somente 8 posts por causa disso. E não dá pra dizer que é porque é novo. vi tópico de 3 dias de idade muito mais prolíficos.


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MensagemEnviada: Quinta Março 13, 2008 16:10  |  Assunto: Responder com Citação





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qwertt escreveu:
SteaL7h escreveu:
Gostei do post e agradeço por ter postado.

Pra quem diz que é inútil colocar teorias em inglês aqui, eu discordo. Eu não visito o DarkUFO mas gosto de ler teorias. E como sei falar inglês...
Eu sei inglês muito bem, obrigado. O ponto é que esse é um site brasileiro, nem todo mundo que acessa sabe inglês. pra traduzir um parágrafo com esses tradutores instântaneos da net, mas um texto não vai fazer sentido.

Fora que já que é lógico que se se quer compartilhar um conteúdo que se traduza ele, para ficar mais fácil. Não duvido que esse tópico tem somente 8 posts por causa disso. E não dá pra dizer que é porque é novo. vi tópico de 3 dias de idade muito mais prolíficos.



E também tem muita gente que tem um trabalhão danado traduzindo longos artigos em inglês, vide o mellojack, que traduziu 2 ótimos artigos do próprio Darkufo e com isso pôde compartilhar suas idéias com várias pessoas.

Seria bem fácil então aumentar o meu n° de posts e mesmo de tópicos criados, apenas copiando e colando matérias legais de sites gringos. E também estaria contribuindo para atulhar o servidor do LB.

E se em inglês pode, então também pode em alemão, húngaro, chinês... ora, azar de quem não sabe estar línguas. Doubt


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MensagemEnviada: Quinta Março 13, 2008 18:36  |  Assunto: Responder com Citação





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Não vai ler, legal. Não sei por que ficam perdendo o tempo postando no tópico.

Ultimamente andam criando tanto lixo mal escrito que assim que eu vi que era em inglês e chupinzado decidi ler.

falei aqui no fórum que odiei o caminho unbelievable que a série tomou, mas já que é pra viajar essa teoria é legal. Todos bonzinhos viajando no tempo para salvar o mundo, que lindo. Principalmente na parte que diz que o próprio Hurley inventou os números.

Bem pensado. Ou não.


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